Donny: 0:49

Welcome back to music, ghost stories.. Where we unravel the mysteries of music's profound influence in our lives. I'm Donnie, your host. In this episode, we're stepping into the intriguing world of pro audio and emotions. Joining me today is Doug we're like myself. Doug is a mix engineer. For those of you that don't know mixing is a technical yet artistic craft in which multiple sounds within a song are balanced to create a harmonious blend. What's unique about Doug is that he's made his way into being responsible for shaping a lot of the top charts in Christian music. Uh, his impressive lists of credits, include bands like mercy, me, skillet. Newsboys, and Berlin, and one of my favorites... this year self-titled album by a band called the Maine. So I've been meaning to speak with Doug for some time. Doug was so gracious to speak with me over the phone. today. Of course, we nerded out over audio techniques and equipment, But then Doug story takes us through the intricate tapestry. Of how songs are shaped with balance, how music resonated with him emotionally, and reoccurrences that he's experienced with music throughout his time. Let's dive into that world where music transcends language and connects us to something truly universal.

Doug: 2:09

What's up? How are you? Good, man. Dude, your place looks incredible.

Donny: 2:15

It's all right. It looks great. I'm trying to get it to sound great. That's right. Yeah,

Doug: 2:19

that's, that's the hard part. Mine sounds, mine sounds great, but it. It can be rough

Donny: 2:24

looking. Yeah.

Doug: 2:25

the attack wall looks cool to me. It looks like it looks like you know what you're doing if you have one. Because I, like, it's not, it's definitely not consumer grade stuff.

Donny: 2:37

It was really bizarre the way that these just came down here and I didn't know what to make of it. And once I set them up and got things rolling, I had to relearn. Like mixing has not been the same.

Doug: 2:49

Oh yeah, definitely. I think what I've learned in my time mixing is finding ways to force yourself to zoom out. And there's a bunch of like really bizarre sounding techniques. It sounds so weird. Some of the things I do, it's more about actually hearing the entire picture, but just like a dumb down version. like, you can get your mixes so perfect, like. texturally perfect that way, but you definitely can get completely lost in the weeds.

Donny: 3:17

what this is, is like a venture of, the spiritual side of music. it starts with mixing and getting lost in the technical aspects. Then it moves to mixing to serve the song. Doesn't matter what you do, as long as it serves the song, then it, then it goes in the rabbit hole, like, what is the song conveying and then it starts to go into the story or the emotions right then I'm like, okay, well, it doesn't matter what I'm doing because no matter what I do, if it's not serving the song or eliciting some emotion, what's the point, right? what I found interesting about your stuff is that I think you said, like, part of your story was that you started front of house. At your church or something?

Doug: 3:56

you know what, I guess that would be the very, like, that would be when I was like 13 or 14, my very first experience with EQ was that, but I, I wouldn't say that like, that's. a super influential part of what I'm doing now, but yeah, I guess, yeah, I forgot about that. That was my first experience with the technical side besides like I played guitar. So, that's, that's how I got started into this whole world,

Donny: 4:25

what took you to mixing mostly like, spiritual related music, you know, like

Doug: 4:30

the guy, it's just, it's just the place. Like I, I grew up in the church. I played in a Christian band and it's just a circle of people that I. ended up working with like, just proximity, I would say. I, I really loved getting to do it obviously. Yeah. I think it's being in a Christian band and just having that network is how

Donny: 4:51

I got into that. there was like a phase where I felt like every band was a Christian band locally where I was. when I played on a Christian band, I, I said we went on, we would go on tour. Right, but it wasn't a tour. We would just get, we would play every youth group, but I got to see every sector by being in that band, like every sector of, the church,

Doug: 5:11

what was, what was the band?

Donny: 5:13

Uh, my band was called salvaged

Doug: 5:15

souls. Did you, like, how, how far, did you, did you

Donny: 5:20

so I'm in Maryland, so it would be one of the surrounding states. We didn't go further out. Sure. and, but, that was the coolest part, is I got to see every little bit of, anywhere from, like, yeah, come in here. And play your heaviest song, you know, can you turn it down a little bit all the way to, what is that? is that an electric bass guitar? I need you to put that in that closet and do not grab it until you leave. You know, I got I learned a lot from being in a Christian band. I'm sure you have too. Oh yeah. But that network, brought you to like, I guess the guitar in that band got you into mixing and then the people you're associated with got you into the, so let me ask you this. Have you found, like, have you discovered yet? Or are you, trying to discover how your mixes can, cause I mean, a lot of the stories, like the songs are emitting some spiritual Christian type music, right? So have you, have you like cracked into how your mixes can bring that?

Doug: 6:19

You know, I, it sounds very, unchristian of me, but I think, I think, all music has the potential. Whether it's Christian or not, to, convey an emotional message without lyrics, It's a language of Your soul like we can speak this language through music and we can convey emotional messages through music Like when you hear a chord progression that's sad you feel that way so like I think it's just a universal law of music the way things vibrate the way you know sound waves travel every little bit of that. is some sort of language that we haven't completely cracked the code of I know that's like, it's a really convoluted way to, to explain that, all that to say is music is a language of emotion. That's like, if I say something to make you feel an emotion, like it's kind of hard, but if I play a sad song, you, you feel that immediately it, it transcends language and, you know, cultures and all that stuff. So I think that's kind of. That's kind of what's happening, and then when you put a spiritual message over it, it just, it impacts, and, like, it works, you know, it works with, stuff that's, has nothing to do with Christianity, but it, but it, like, trying to think of a song, like, think about a Sarah McLachlan song. On those dog commercials. Those make you feel sad. They make you give money to the dogs. So it does the same thing. it's like, I have this message that I'm saying with the lyrics and music is the vehicle by which it travels, that type of thing. whether it's faith-based or not, it, is all impactful and the way that we go about mixes, like how this should, how this should sit with that, the way that things are put together, only solidifies that emotional message.

Donny: 8:19

That is, there's, there's some gold in there. Another thing about this podcast that I'm trying to do is, is definitely make sure that there's no discriminatory, like sector, like I want to open it up to all different varieties of faith. music instruments, everything I think just like you said, you don't need to have any words. You can just play the music There's something within there to where you can feel it. And why is that? I don't think anybody really knows. have you ever had an experience where you heard music and it really resonated with you like that?

Doug: 8:55

Yes. I don't think I've ever told anyone this story. This is really embarrassing. When I was like four years old or something. I had bad teeth when I was a kid, like I had to get fillings and crowns a lot. lucky there were baby teeth, so like I don't have it anymore. But, I had a crown fall off. And at the same time, cause I was sitting in my living room, I probably chewing on popcorn or something that is bad to eat, but that's not, and I felt my crown fall off and then all of a sudden this Enya song came on and it was that, anywhere is like, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, but the chorus is so sad and like, but hopeful and all this stuff, and I went to my mom and I told her, Hey, my crown fell off. And then I started sobbing because that's, cause I was thinking about like, Oh, my tooth broke. But then I heard this song that made me so sad. And that's what I knew. There is, there is some kind of strong emotional, connection with music, that can affect anyone. When I was four years old. Your mom was probably like, your mom was like, what's the matter? just fell off. This poor kid. Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. She's like, I don't know. It's tearing this family apart. Yeah, the funny thing is, Enya rules, by the way, I put that song on for my, my first born, when she was like two, and she literally started crying when I put that song, like, she was like, you know, when they like, well, I don't know, how old Donnie is. Yeah, he's just two months. Okay, so at a certain point, they will have little, little emotions where, you can see it coming like they'll, they'll have like. They'll be a really sad face, and then they'll start crying, and that's how you know, because they cry all the time. But that's how you know it's a sad cry, because they make a real cute frowny face, and then they start bawling. But I turned it off immediately, because she couldn't handle it. But it just, it literally, it's a language you're born with. Yeah. Wow.

Donny: 11:06

Music is a language that you're born with.

Doug: 11:09

Definitely. If my two year old who has no language can understand it, it makes her sad. Like, how much more universal could it

Donny: 11:20

be, you know? Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's insane. Was there ever a moment with music that was more unexplainable?

Doug: 11:28

Ooh, nothing's coming to mind there. Unexplainable. Like the, like the chime, the wind chime thing. Exactly. A coincidence.

Donny: 11:36

No, I don't think so. You haven't had anything, you haven't had anything like that. Very explainable. All of it. Part of this, the first episode that I have, I'll text it to you when we're done, but my mom had a laryngectomy, um, before she passed and she, uh, she wasn't able to speak anymore. So they, there was this weird thing where. I, I tried to imagine what it was like to be like that, and it just forces you to listen more, and then I sort of conveyed the message when it's, it's like almost when you're in prayer or when you're meditating, you kind of turn off everything else and you're kind of stuck, you kind of put yourself in a more spongy, absorbent state to where you're more open to accept coincidences like that. but I think what I'm trying to do is encourage listeners to experience that more so little, gifts that surround us each and every day that we just kind of like walk past because we're busy. Um, it's kind of like more like, hey, when, if, if you're listening to this, you know, pay attention once this is done, because there might be some, there might be some gem there that you would have never known. when you're shopping or when you're out and about and you hear a song just just peek in for a moment and just see like, okay, does that relate to us today or something like that? You might find that there's something there.

Doug: 13:01

Yeah, I'd love to hear stories like that.

Donny: 13:03

a lot of people will and I think that's going to be like the best part about this is like the networking because one, I wanted to meet you for a long time because I listened to your stuff and then you just did the main which I thought was incredible. And then. Yeah. And then, um, but the podcast, I'd like, this is the perfect excuse just

Doug: 13:18

to say

Donny: 13:20

is there an artist? Um, that you're like a fan of, or like a band that like constantly follows you. Like, they're like, Oh, it's like, we're with Doug. So of course this is playing or like, you're going out with your wife and then this band's on and then she looks at you.

Doug: 13:36

the, the closest thing to that would be, Like, if you Shazam a song, At one point, mine would always be Ryan Adams. I would be like, oh man, what's this? And it's Ryan Adams. Not Brian Adams, Ryan Adams. Ryan

Donny: 13:49

Adams.

Doug: 13:49

Yeah, he's, he's a Taylor Swift for dudes, I think. He even did, he did a Taylor Swift cover album. it's all the bands on Shazam and it, it always tends to be the same. It's people that I never really got into, but every time I hear it, I'm like, ah, I liked it. and it's like, it's probably the most, can I, I need to look at my Shazam. It's probably the most embarrassing people.

Donny: 14:10

the music ghost of Ryan Adams, haunts Doug.

Doug: 14:14

this has happened a couple of times, um, when I've Shazam'd something and it's Goo Goo Dolls. I never got into Goo Goo Dolls, but I'll be like, yeah, this is, this is a jam. Yes.

Donny: 14:28

They actually have a spiritual aspect to their music, I would say, in some way. It could be because it's the nineties and it's a little bit nostalgic for people our age. But yeah, I

Doug: 14:36

think, I think that might have a lot to do with it because yeah, it reminds me of simpler times. yeah. Yeah. I wish. I wish music sounded like that. At least some part parts of music sounded like that still.

Donny: 14:49

Yeah, So we'll conclude it with this while you're mixing with these bands and artists, if the music that you're working on, or somehow your input. On this process of creating and releasing music could send any message or convey any emotion or whatever to its listener because of your input. What would that be? What would that

Doug: 15:11

message be? I just want people to just get lost in the music, to get lost in how it sounds, have the, just like, you know, resonate with the music, just feel it. Cause that's, that's how I experience music. When I, when I hear a song that I like, I don't think about anything else. I just get lost in the music. So that's what I want to do for people. I want to make, I want to make, people fans of the bands whose songs I mix.

Donny: 15:42

by it grabbing their attention and

Doug: 15:45

just making them loving it. Yeah. I want to make you love it. it doesn't happen often, but if I get a song that I'm just like, nah, this isn't very good. How can I make it sound engaging and make people love it still despite. I feel like I have saved songs by making them sound awesome.

Donny: 16:02

by you messing with the sound and getting them to move to the music, will actually give it that extra flair where maybe the message or like the, song structure doesn't. Really resonate as well You're hoping that maybe hey now we can translate this in a different way to where gonna gain some fans Yeah, and if it's your if it's the craft too I mean Being a mixer that's people that hire you It's in their best interest to make sure that, you know, what they're creating does translate and gets that, you know, resonance across. So, it's awesome. Cool, man.

Doug: 16:39

Yeah, dude, I loved it. So thanks for, thanks for reaching out.

Donny: 16:43

if you gain anything, I hope it's some sort of motivation or inspiration to, take music. To like more of that, uh, emotional, like bigger picture. then also when you're out, to listen and, pay attention to what the cosmos is sending you like, it's like little gems of music. Yeah, totally. Yeah. And then once you, once that happens, share it with me, because you'd be like, dude, I swear to you, this song was playing right when this happened. Awesome,

Doug: 17:12

bro. Well, great hanging with you. Talk soon. All right, man. I'll talk to you. All right.

Donny: 17:18

That's a wrap for this episode of music, ghost stories. Doug's insights into the language of music and the art of creating resonance are truly captivating. We hope you've enjoyed the ride, and we encourage you to open your ears and hearts to the musical gems that surround you every day. Music, after all, is a language that we're born with. If you've experienced any musical synchronicities or simply want to share your thoughts. Please share it with us on music, ghost stories, Facebook group. Your stories and experiences are the heartbeat of this podcast. Until next time, everyone. Though this episode's over. Keep listening.