0:49

Welcome to another episode of music, ghost stories, where we talk about music and it's synchronicity in our lives. I'm Donnie, your host. And today we're exploring the spiritual side of music with a very special guest. On episode one, I told the story of when my dad passed away. And how his voice echoed to me through music. On this episode, Justin, our guest, shares personal stories and insights into how he's adopted his father's spiritual outlook. And how remaining in an open mindset can unlock wisdom and creativity. We'll discuss the legacy of Justin's dad who sought healing through music and how his messages of compassion and unconditional love. Still resonate today. You know, it's funny. The song my dad was singing too, when he said"goodbye. Is the song in which Justin's dad sing the actual lead vocal on the beach boys album pet sounds. Everyone. Let's welcome. Justin, Carl Wilson.

Donny: 2:01

Justin, welcome to the podcast. I want to thank you for taking the time to document, what I think is a bit of history

Justyn: 2:08

Cool. Thank you. And thank you for reaching out. It is my pleasure. It's been a pleasure to meet you and I look forward to speaking to you and, your audience.

Donny: 2:17

let's tell the people a little bit about who you are.

Justyn: 2:20

Well, my name is. Justin Wilson, I was born in 1971. So I'm a early fifties here as we speak. And, my father was Carl Wilson. Of the Beach Boys, he was the youngest of the three Wilson brothers. It was Brian, Dennis, and Carl, my dad. he was the baby. he was like 14 when they got going. and they were like world famous. And I, I have a 16 year old now and it is mind bending. I play and write music, you know, I'm a musician. My wife and I have three beautiful kids, two high schoolers and a little guy, six and a half. our kids and our family, there's nothing more important to me. And, there's no words for the love you feel. So I'm, so grateful and so thankful.

Donny: 3:03

you and I share a common theme, which is, I think the relationship between music, family and legacy. what is one aspect of your father's, talent or his personality that you think often goes overlooked or underrated?

Justyn: 3:20

his sense of humor, I think is something that is lost on most and for good reason, you know, he was very centered, he was very grounded. And so I think that he came across in kind of a serious manner. And when it came to his music. And the beach boys music, he was dead serious about it. And he cared. I think it's fair to say that no one cared more than him in. them playing their best and putting on the best show they can staying present in the music that was a big one for him. it would be a thorn in his side when he felt that, people weren't being present on stage and in the moment, mean, you play these songs thousands of times who, who could blame anyone for maybe wandering off, mentally or whatever the case. to bring it back. he had a great sense of humor, it was very dry. he would deadpan, his jokes. And it might take you a split second to, Oh, he's kidding now. I see. but no, he was hilarious. great sense of humor, wonderful father, very present with whoever he was with and a wonderful human being.

Donny: 4:29

my wife, got me a Christmas present, I unwrapped it and it's a guitar pick from the beach boys. And I was like, was this used by the beach boys? And I look on the back. And it says Wilson, but it doesn't say Carl Wilson, which sort of alludes to your father's sense of humor.

Justyn: 4:46

It says, of course, Cookie Wilson. This is such a perfect segue, Donnie, because that's exactly it. That was his sense of humor. And it's just him kind of making fun of himself, or just being ridiculous.

Donny: 5:00

it's my Christmas cookie.

Justyn: 5:01

it's so funny when I'm saying his sense of humor. It didn't even dawn on me, oh yeah, you have the Cookie Wilson pic, and that's a total joke that he's making of himself. ah, that's perfect.

Donny: 5:12

what's interesting is I asked her, I said, Did you get this after I told you that, Justin reached out to me and, she said, no, I was like, that's a little bit, of a coincidence. If you ask me,

Justyn: 5:25

That's great. And all on his birthday. I thought, you know what better day to call, to reach back out to Donny than, than on my dad's birthday. I

Donny: 5:31

That's right. On the 21st. And my dad was also born on the 21st. That was something that we shared.

Justyn: 5:36

that's right.

Donny: 5:37

and yours. Yeah, that's right. You're the 18th and I'm the 18th. Oh, wow. Yeah. what is your best memory, of music

Justyn: 5:46

Oh my gosh. there's just so much, it's like a through line through our lives and our childhoods my first image that comes to mind is the tagging along. just, being on the side of the stage and, I'd have a pass so I could get around. And as I got older, I would do a lap, like a slow lap around the arenas and just stop in different spots of the arena. he was always real curious to ask, how did it sound, just like any other guy in a band, how do we sound and it was like, it was always like, it sounded great. it's like you're there before the show and the lights are dark and you're like in a 10, 000, 15, 000 seat arena. The lights drop and then they announced them from Southern California, the beach boys, and, the big roar. And then, they would usually go into California girls was, seemed to be the first song of the set usually, but, it was after his passing in 98, a few years after that, I got more into their catalog. I hadn't really listened to all of their albums, like in earnest, I would go out and hear their live show and they would play the hits. you know, the surfing songs and the car songs and all that stuff. but when I got into. Albums like 2020 and friends and Holland and sunflower. I was like, Whoa, surf's up. And I had heard these songs throughout my childhood, but I hadn't really placed them, in my mind. And that I think is where my love for the beach boys music grew deeper for sure. I loved hearing the live stuff and it was fun and it makes you feel good. which I think is part of what we're talking about today too. Just the spirit of the music and how it makes you feel and why we do it and all that kind of stuff. so those are my very early memories and then, discovering their catalog later,

Donny: 7:39

was there a song of your dad's, whether it's Beach Boys or his solo stuff? That sort of grabbed you when you were listening in that era.

Justyn: 7:51

That's a good question. from an early age, a song that stuck with me through the years that I still love so much is time to get alone. it's just a beautiful, it's like a love song, like a sweet, sweet love song, not a ballad, but, um, I believe it might even be a waltz if I'm not mistaken Angel Come Home is another one. when I was young, 10, 11, 12, I used to be in my bedroom and play that over and over. And I just loved it so much. written by our dad and, Dennis sang it. then some songs off of, his solo stuff that were great. Heaven is he, they used to do a song called heaven. the beach boys would, um, would, would do that. They would do God only knows pretty much every night. And then heaven would be one of those that would rotate in and out. you mentioned, I think that you we're listening to Holland

Donny: 8:40

Yeah. the more I sort of, looked into, the beach boys. Your dad started standing out more and more. I started to learn about your dad's producer's role and it led me to Beach Boys Holland cause your dad produced that with Jack Riley. and they actually went to Holland,

Justyn: 8:58

Yeah, I love it. And I believe it is the first track of steamboat. I think

Donny: 9:03

I listened to that last night.

Justyn: 9:04

oh my gosh, it's, it's just so gorgeous. I love it so much. they did this cool thing With, several songs where Carl would write the song and then Dennis would sing it like angel come home. and then conversely, Dennis wrote a few songs that, that Carl would sing and I thought that was really cool. A little brotherly thing. And, um, yeah, I love that era. The more obscure stuff, I'll call it, by the Beach Boys. for me anyway, I think that's where the essence of the band lies more so than the early 60s surfing stuff, which is great. And it's fun. Like I said, it makes you feel good. And all that good stuff, but for me personally, like the deeper, the better, for a deep connection or a deep meaning, or, to really feel it in that way.

Donny: 9:52

people are recognizing even today that the Beach Boys had this whole different side to them that resonates And all the recordings that your dad did as a professional was actually such a blessing that you can just go and listen to them whenever you want. I'm haunted to this day, my dad was a songwriter too, I can hear them in my head, but I can't play them anywhere, those things that your dad created being documented and captured in like the best way possible. is really just such a honor and a blessing to be able to tune in to that whenever you want,

Justyn: 10:32

I couldn't agree more. to be, in holiday season and be out and hear, Little Saint Nick or, just throughout the year, you hear these songs, out in the public or on a commercial or whatever. you can do a YouTube thing, a deep dive. And I can go and watch interviews and listen to interviews of him speaking. And that, the music and the singing is wonderful and I love it and it's great, but to be able to hear a speaking voice, there's something that I maybe appreciate even more so about that. which might sound a little strange considering, the, the depth of their catalog and what he did musically, but to hear his speaking voice is just special On my phone, I could hit a couple buttons and then there he is talking. And so absolutely, I'm so blessed in that way. And yeah, no, that is, not been lost on me for years. It's oh my gosh, I can't even believe how lucky I am in that way.

Donny: 11:28

Yeah, it's interesting that you say that, this past Christmas we went over to my uncle's house and he has a little bar in his basement, I just love going down there and hearing stories about my dad.

Justyn: 11:38

Yes.

Donny: 11:38

that's my dad's brother. and his sister. And I was like, that's what I love about it. Because. my one sibling is my older sister. So I feel like when I'm hearing these stories from my uncle, I'm learning about my dad as a brother, not a father. And now we're starting to sync up. And this is probably what you experienced that you totally just blew my mind with is that since he's past stories about him, bring his age down and down, cause you're going into the past and as I get older, eventually we sync up. And I'm imagining my dad as my age. it's really fascinating. And you get to tune into that on YouTube, which is just even crazier,

Justyn: 12:21

I know. I know I spoke of, how young he was when the Beach Boys got going, but I'm now older than my dad was when he passed, by a little bit more than a year or so. And, yeah, it is just a trip. Like you said, how, your timelines move closer and closer and then they intersect and oh my gosh, I can't believe it.

Donny: 12:42

so to, dive back into that resonance, Have you ever had an emotional reaction, maybe even tears, listening to music in some way?

Justyn: 12:52

the short answer is yes, absolutely. Many times, Oh my gosh. I would say that the number one, instance of that to answer that question directly is it was shortly after his passing. He passed in February of 98 and, and I was home alone in the Hollywood Hills and, not too far from the bowl. And I was listening to Lenny Kravitz. he was a big influence on me just falling in love with the idea of actually doing it. I was like, oh my gosh, like Lenny was just the coolest he still is. I think he's awesome. But anyway, he lost his mom early and he wrote a song. I believe it's called thinking of you and I. was listening to that and I, I probably played it over and over and oh my gosh, I don't know that I've ever cried so hard listening to that song, Lenny singing to his mom that had since passed and, thinking of you oh my gosh, it was like a conduit and I was like, man, yeah. If I ever come across Lenny or meet him, I would just have to thank him. Cause it was like, I will never forget, those moments and, and yeah, that song by, by him was, was a big one for me in that moment. And he had just passed recently. So it was all really right there. And it was the key at that moment. And it's happened since,

Donny: 14:12

Yeah. Yeah. But that's one, one great example of timing the, yeah, it could really just bring out such strong emotions. And do you think that Lenny Kravitz song, what really pulled you at that time? Do you think it was the music? Or do you think it was the lyrics of that song

Justyn: 14:30

yeah. I think it was the spirit of it. I really do. So it's all of the above. I think to answer your question. yes, it was absolutely the lyrics. It was the message in it. I would agree with that, but it was the feeling. It was like I could tap in to how he was feeling and that relationship that he had with his mom felt so similar. It felt like we're, this is like a parallel thing here. and he was singing and saying what I was feeling, that's like the thing about music that just does it for us. And like I said, like the soundtracks to our lives and that was probably my most powerful experience with that, to answer that question

Donny: 15:16

what is your insight on how music achieves that deep interconnection?

Justyn: 15:21

to go back to my dad and what he might say, a lot of what I have come to believe he was telling me the whole time, but it took a while for me, it took into my twenties to where it's like, Oh, I see what he meant. and his answer was basically because, people are spirit, like we are spirit. And he believed also that music is spirit. It's like a living, it's like a living thing, Songs and music, it's You know what I mean? It's, it is spirit. So if we are spirit and music is spirit, and then it's a natural, connection, or like you said, there's a synchronicity there. not every song is going to do it for you, but the ones that do, I think that can really lend itself to that, that deep connection, that deep meaning, that deep feeling.

Donny: 16:52

I've never really heard that music is its own spiritual entity. and that's like kind of mind blowing to me. I've heard before, like musicians sometimes are nothing but an antenna. I've heard a few interviews. Yeah. and what they do is they receive these signals and all they're doing is they're, giving it a vessel to, to travel like I said, the podcast is just this capture and release. some musicians have that outlook saying that's what music is. I'm just capturing wherever it comes from, who knows? And I'm just releasing it for other people to hear. Some people say it's not even their music. They're like, it ain't mine. I just, I made it, but it came from somewhere else. And your dad saying that it's its own spirit is really unique and I think very, very cool. how would you define, your spiritual outlook?

Justyn: 17:40

I think similarly to his, I never found him to be a very religious person. but oh my gosh, he was probably the most spiritual person. that I've ever known and I think in that, a lot of his messages and the things that he would say over and over had a lot to do with compassion and empathy. Understanding of just our fellow, humans and, that we're all doing the best we can and one thing that I've said this before, but, if you knew their story and what they've been through and maybe the pain they've felt and just what they are dealing with in their own, Humanness, that you would love him like your own and you would have great compassion and empathy and understanding for that person. And he really, walked the walk with that. and, being a young kid, I'm sure I complained to him a million times about different situations or people. And it was funny, tended be the balance. it was hardly ever in agreement with me. It was wanting to show me that there is another view of this or there's another way to look at this or understand it. And he really carried that understanding or that thing that people are just doing the best they can in this life with. maybe their circumstance or what they're dealing with. who, who knows? We don't know. you never know. what the person in the other car has gone through that day or what they're dealing with, or the person that might be rubbing you the wrong way, or you're not on the same page because they have a whole other life experience. And, so just to be careful not to judge that because we don't know. And so I think he came from a place of. Compassion, empathy, understanding, all that.

Donny: 19:30

I was imagining a video I saw, I don't know if it was some science video or something, I guess it's about water and the characteristics of water where the game. Was like you go around in a circle and everybody's pouring water into a cup, right? And the glass is full of water. And now it's your turn. And you're like, oh man, if I pour water in here, it's going to. And then what they do is they do the tiniest little drop and the glass does not overflow. And then it's the next person's turn. I'm like, oh, no way they're getting water in there. And then they go and it's just more water. And it's soon the surface tension will break and that glass will overflow, but it made me think that, you're like, no way is water getting poured in this glass. And your dad has this little cup of love, unconditional love, and he says, no, look, there's always room. And he just, boop, just a little splash. You know, and, and, and I think Music could be a vessel for unconditional love. That's really neat. something I saw about your dad, someone quoted him saying that Brian, your Uncle Brian, would actually write down prayers on paper. And your dad said we would pray for guidance to make the most healing sounds.

Justyn: 20:44

Wow,

Donny: 20:45

I thought that was. Really incredible. and this is, I'm going to plug a previous episode of the podcast here because I started to dive into music therapy and how music has these healing aspects and like how science has proven music and how we've created scanning of the brain and how they're analyzing the brain during certain parts involving music, and that was on episode three, and I learned that there are healing aspects of music. And that's like recent studies that are proving that, but back in the era of pet sounds was well before I think the technology understood that. It really stands out that they were, requesting that their music have this healing aspect.

Justyn: 21:31

that's amazing. Yeah, I had heard or was aware that there was some amount of prayer or, spiritual, connection, as they worked, in the studio, or maybe before they started working, like you're saying, but I don't think I've ever heard It put in those terms that they were praying for healing. That is remarkable.

Donny: 21:55

another note on this sort of spiritual part of it. Someone said, how do you define the meaning of life? So he said, the meaning of life is simple. It's enjoying the passage of time.

Justyn: 22:07

okay, yeah,

Donny: 22:09

But you know, I Googled that and it was James Taylor who came up as saying that originally. I thought it was cool that James Taylor did a movie with your Uncle Dennis.

Justyn: 22:18

yeah, two lane blacktop. got, it's been years since, since I've, I've seen it, but, uh, yeah,

Donny: 22:24

so you being a musician and having all this wisdom passed down to you, doing your own thing when you're creating, performing, have you ever tried to apply that, in your music or have you ever felt it while you were, paving your own path musically,

Justyn: 22:41

yeah, the spirituality in it, it ma it makes me think more of, we were talking about, the music and being spirit, you know, when you are playing, it could be someone else's, music or your own or whatever. I imagine that you could relate to it where you're playing the song and it takes on a life of its own. And then there's a moment or a place. Where it's you're not really playing it as much as you're along for the ride. and I think the spirit of it and the life of the music, can be felt in those moments, maybe that's where I'm feeling the spirituality. So I'm not thinking about it so much. Like I said, I don't want to overthink. I said one of my great gifts. I don't overthink. but yeah, but that, that the feeling of it is you're along for the ride of your own song,

Donny: 23:26

when you're creating music, You know, there's a part of your brain that recognizes patterns and maybe you want to imitate those that inspire you it's hard to stay open to what just comes to you.

Justyn: 23:38

Yeah. And then not to mention, you play it enough. Times or whatever it is. And then the happy mistakes come and those are always the coolest, oops, didn't mean to do that. Ooh, that was pretty cool. I think I'll keep it,

Donny: 23:49

yeah, the good,

Justyn: 23:50

happened to all of

Donny: 23:52

yeah, the lucky mistakes,

Justyn: 23:53

The lucky

Donny: 23:54

yeah, right. here's a good one. Have you ever experienced an odd coincidence involving music in some way?

Justyn: 24:01

I can't recall a specific instance of that. But the one that, that I think of is, I was doing this little show in a club in Santa Monica. and I felt my dad's presence. I thought I did anyway, I was playing. Wasn't sure but I don't know and I I think there was something technical went wrong. I think I had to like restring like in the middle of the show or something like embarrassing or awful or whatever. And then after one of my good friends came up to me He was like, I thought I felt your pops tonight or something. I was like, Oh my gosh, It was so cool and interesting that he recognized that, so separately from me, you know, I'm up on the stage playing and he's just there but he felt his presence as I did. I can't prove it, but you know, it felt like it. And then, and then, yeah, I threw that little anecdote into lyrics, into a song, later.

Donny: 24:58

Oh, okay.

Justyn: 24:59

cool. Yeah.

Donny: 25:00

Yeah. that's neat. would you say that, music transcends time?

Justyn: 25:06

yeah, I think so. it's interesting. I'm thinking of music in like in a visceral sense, like where you really feel like, Oh my God, this is like a real thing that I'm feeling or going through, that when you connect to the music and that kind of thing, and like we said earlier, it can transport you back to your childhood, to different places on the earth. so yeah, absolutely. I do, I believe it's, transcends time.

Donny: 25:29

in what ways do you think, your dad and the beach boys continue to resonate with newer generations in terms of its spiritual and emotional impact?

Justyn: 25:41

I guess maybe it's, songs don't have to be, or music doesn't have to be popular to make you feel, a certain way, but something in their music, obviously has resonated with. Generations, literally, and millions upon millions of people. So there's something in there, I think Brian said one time, the family that sings together as a family that stays together, it was just his, musical spin on it, I think it's like all of the above. And I think, we're all given our God given gifts and I don't know, some resonate more than others, or some are destined more than others. like Prince comes to mind, oh my gosh, he was an absolute, vessel of a higher something. And, just his musicianship and the way it came through him. And so not everyone is born Prince, not everyone is born Lennon and McCartney or Brian Wilson or Bach or Beethoven or, you know what I mean? So I would be fascinated to hear, the. Quantum physics of it or to be able to hear it on a, metaphysical explanation because, I don't know. I just, I think it's everything or all of the above maybe.

Donny: 26:56

it might be as simple as just keeping an open mindset. when you're getting ready to make one of the biggest records of all time, unknowingly mind you, and you're asking the abyss to just like, Hey, make sure what we're doing has meaning.

Justyn: 27:14

Yeah, absolutely. you said open. And I think that's a key word there to remain open, I think, whether it was Brian and or all the Beach Boys, I think, especially Brian, probably in being able to channel all of that and his genius, but he remained open. he was open to the possibilities to experimenting with sound and they took such a hard. Left turn, like the Beatles were kind of like a gradual, you know, from their early beginnings to Sgt. Pepper's they, it's like they took steps and they graduated to each one. The Beach Boys just were like, and they, took that gnarly turn. And then here, they are with Pet Sounds and I think it was probably impossible for everyone to digest that, And now it's considered one of the greatest albums of all time. But like you said, I think, to remain open is a beautiful thing and something that I'm sure we could all do more of. Whether it's you're open to my ideas, I'm open to yours and we're sharing and it's great and I'm having a good time, learning as we go and, and staying open. I think that's, I think that's a big key, actually, you know, open to the possibilities that this other person has. Is going through some stuff and I don't know what that is. so let me, don't limit my, experience with my own, constraints. I'll say that to my kids, stay open to the possibility that you might have a good time if you do this. yeah, so yeah, absolutely. with music, with people, you know, on like a spiritual level, just to remain open.

Donny: 28:53

That's a good theme for today. this one's a little bit more of an interesting scenario, I should say, imagine you're creating a time capsule. with your dad and he says, he said, Hey, Justin, just me and you today, we're going to go out and we're going to leave something, we're going to bury it in the ground for the future to see, like generations later. I need you to pick three things. What would you put in this time capsule? that when someone opens it up, it would maybe be a picture of you and your dad and these three things.

Justyn: 29:24

Oh my gosh. the first thing that came to mind, just cause we're, talking so much about music and, how technology has changed. And my first thought was a boom box, I haven't had one of those since, the eighties or the nineties, but it was like

Donny: 29:37

Yeah,

Justyn: 29:38

kids or people might look at that. You might look at that today and go what the heck is

Donny: 29:41

I, I got one right, hold on, is

Justyn: 29:43

Oh, there you go. Yeah, exactly. I think I saw that in a beastie boys video once. no, that's awesome. gosh, that's a great question. I've, got music on my mind, And, I thought of vinyl as well. it's like technology is everywhere. It's just, you can't escape it. We're all tied to it. We are using it right now. even like a phone, like your iPhone, it's like, it's like, we're all walking around with these supercomputers and then in 50, a hundred years. You might look at this like we look at the boombox, I don't know

Donny: 30:18

will be a phone,

Justyn: 30:20

yeah, I know I thought they'll just insert the chip into wherever

Donny: 30:25

I will be the phone,

Justyn: 30:27

you just walk down the street looking like a maniac talking to your buddy with nothing, talking it to nothing

Donny: 30:31

that's so funny.

Justyn: 30:33

yeah, I don't know something like that or like a like a really cool picture of You know like the globe or something beautiful like beautiful scenery or Something with nature because, I'm always thrilled when they don't do more developing, like around here, like I grew up in Santa Monica and, oh my gosh, they have overdeveloped it and it is, it'll never be the same and it's kind of sad. You know, I loved growing up there in the late seventies and eighties. And, And it's just been overdeveloped in my opinion. I think that's why my dad, gravitated towards, he moved to Colorado, moved up into, up into the Rockies, first on Caribou ranch where, who's, who of people, recorded records there, like Chicago, the beach boys, Michael Jackson, Joe Walsh. It goes on and on. and so he went up there to work. And caribou fell in love with it and just, I just think he liked the peace, the serenity. And so he chose to live there full time when he wasn't on the road, he was in Colorado and he would come to LA to visit, me and my brother and spent and his mom, like our grandma, Audrey. And spend time with family, but, but that's really where he wanted to be up on the mountains. maybe some cool pictures of, of unmolested earth, just the sheer beauty of God's beautiful earth. that kind of thing would be cool to include.

Donny: 31:53

I love where you're going with this because something that I think, makes maybe the Beach Boys stand out is that the time in which they were creating their music was much more tangible. I was showing my buddy, for instance, I had a record player. I unplugged it from the wall and handed him the cord. And he was holding the cord and I was spinning the record. And I said, do you hear that? And he was like, yeah, where's it coming from? he didn't understand. And I said, you're holding the power cord. It's not plugged in. And he said, Oh, and he was like, what, how is that possible? And he was mind blown. And I was too. That's why I was sharing it with him. Cause I had just restored my dad's record player. I was really into this whole thing. And there's a producer, Steve Albini. have you heard of him? He worked with Nirvana

Justyn: 32:38

I have absolutely.

Donny: 32:39

he always records to tape, because he believes that. The, recording process is meant to be a document in history. Same thing, like I'm capturing this for future generations, but he said, that tape is interesting because it can be played back through nature. So you can man, you can man, make something to play this tape back. So in a situation where there's no computers or whatever, he doesn't want to rely on technology. He wants to make sure that the future can hear it through the world. so he always preserves it on tape and I thought that was interesting as well. And then you mentioned nature, and overdevelopment, which just, I was talking about this before with you, that song off of Holland called The Traitor. That just kind of stood out to me. I want to send you, if you haven't seen where I sort of like made this announcement to friends and family, like, Oh, I'm going to be a dad. I used it as a way to remember my dad. And welcome the next generation, uh, cause it's, you know, it's Donnie, Donnie and Donnie, that, that whole thing. It kind of, it was like a full circle thing. when I was creating that, I was playing a record while I was working and that song, the traitor came on. I didn't even know what song it was. I had to go back on the record and find it. Like I moved the needle. I'm like, which one is it? And, but that song, the theme is about, overdevelopment and yearning for simpler times like nature, just, it talks about the breeze, the river, and the beauty in which, like you had it in the beginning when you didn't overthink it, when you were just nothing but An open mind.

Justyn: 34:11

Yeah, absolutely. And, that also brings to mind, a Dennis song. One of my favorites, the river song off of Pacific Ocean blue, it is very much the same message and the same theme and wanting to get out of the city and just wanting to. be like the river, just be out in, in nature and all that. he probably wrote that song in 1975 and by 1980, my dad couldn't stand to be in LA anymore because of all the people. So it's funny that Carl and Dennis, among other things, shared that same love of, nature. And, Dennis was a real waterman, like you said, he was the surfer of the group, but yeah, even from surfing, at an early age, he just loved to be on the water, whether it be sailing or, I remember, those summers tagging along, my dad would probably be back in the hotel meditating and I would, and I'd be out with my uncles, Billy. And, and Uncle Dennis out on the local lake with some locals that were more than happy to take some of the beach boys out on the lake and, go water skiing and that kind of thing. So I do have those memories of being with him as well. but yeah, no, he was just like an avid water bed. yeah. He was awesome. rugged guy. Awesome. Awesome guy. Everyone that, I feel like everyone that talks about him, that knew him, just has such a great love for him. similar to my dad, very different people, but, but held and, high regard and a lot of love there.

Donny: 35:34

that's a heavy question or scenario, I should say. But I love what you thought of. I didn't even think about something like with nature. you just assume that nature is just a part of it, but it's not necessarily true that over development, like someone might open that time capsule, have some tangible piece of music. Like what even is this, in like a whole. Digital world and just nature. It might just be like, that's, I don't know. It's so thought provoking. I think that's really neat. if you could write a song with your dad today, what message would you want it to send to the world?

Justyn: 36:05

all the things that he taught me or all the things, all the messages that he, told me over and over. Whether it's about understanding, compassion, love, love is a big one, and also like being open, like you said, I think that kind of goes along with all of it, so all of those, all those things that we've been talking about, I think something along those lines that would touch on those, and I've already written, um, you know, it's like, It's funny, I used to think, half of the songs are either about him or things that, that he taught me. I've written lyrics that are like, quasi verbatim of what he would say to me over and over as a child, just trying to, show me that the other perspective or, to maybe have some more understanding. And so I have put those into some songs, already. But, uh, to do that with him would be special and I would probably just stay right there, like on those themes.

Donny: 37:02

one of the songs that haunts me that I hear my dad. Playing on the piano and singing downstairs, is let love be the answer. that was the theme of the song. Let love be the answer. And it was the chorus. So I'll have to dig it up or try to make it again. I think you and I also share that our dads were pretty advanced. And it's hard to keep up with them. So I crave my dad as a partner because the talent, it seems like they have a strength, or like a superpower. And it's like, man, I could use some of that, when I'm creating,

Justyn: 37:35

I was just, I was just getting going, with, with the band. We were just a little three piece. and so I was able to share what we were doing. And, and really right before he passed, it was just a couple of weeks. I brought a VHS tape of like It's Our first show that we did in the beginning of 98 and, and he, he watched it. and yeah, he was digging it and, they made a comment or two, always super supportive, very supportive, and then there was one, we were down in Palm Springs at a family home there. And I've kept playing the same C chord over. I can't remember exactly. What it is. But anyway, I just kept playing it over. I love the way it sounds. And he, he walked by and he stopped in the doorway. and I was just playing it over and over. And he probably felt okay, maybe it might be time to change. And he recommended, he's like, you know, you could do an F there. That would make sense. And so I was like, and so I did, I was like, Oh my God, it's like genius. I never would have thought. That was in the very beginning, that was really early on, but it was like, mind bending, the simplicity of it. And it was all like the back of his hand, And I think the one thing that I was like, Oh, I wish, if I could pick his brain and talk for hours and hours, just about harmony, just with the music. cause him and Al Jardine, specifically are like locked in the middle of all those Beach Boys harmonies, you know, you have, Brian is the falsetto, he's on top and Mike is the bass and he's down, low and you can pick those out pretty easily, but then you hear this wall of sound, or this big. Chunky sound. And while you can hear the high and the low, that middle binds it. Some of those harmonies are so complex and like you would never really guess, to have to hear him be picked apart a little bit. yeah, if I could pick his brain on just harmonies or what, what, what was your part on that song? I've heard his part on Surfer Girl is a really, really cool part. I said, ah, that'd be fun maybe to record that, you know?

Donny: 39:35

I'll just share a brief story. We went on vacation when I was a kid. And I said, I'm going to the beach. I had a skateboard. I would just do my own thing. I was a teenager at that time. I was like, what's dad going to do? And dad had a little tape recorder that had a great feature that he loved, cassette tape recorder, the best feature. He called it cue review. that's what you have to get because you could have play and rewind would do the little. You know what I'm talking about? And he would, he spent his time taking the Beach Boys, The Lord's Prayer. and he would notate it. And he would break down the harmonies. I think he was fascinated by not the top, not the bottom. but what's happening in the middle there that I can't really, I can't really pick out because it's such a, seamless blend.

Justyn: 40:18

Yeah, no, that's exactly what I'm talking about. man, that takes a special ear to even be able to do that. So I imagine your dad must've had a great ear

Donny: 40:28

he, so it goes, I thought about this briefly when you said like a God given, talent, my dad started out tone deaf, he says he, he, yeah, I think what he was given was passion. when music resonated with him, especially the beach boys. He was just on a mission, just like you said, like, you're so curious about it. And he just went out and got it. whatever he learned, along his journey, I wish he could just show me certain things. but. What echoes with me is like, just because he's gone doesn't mean you, you can't still get there, when I come away from this conversation we had, I think my mindset's really gonna just be, A lot more open. for my little studio endeavors here, is there any wisdom that you've learned, or your dad's passed down that I can apply for mix downs or studio stuff, tips and tricks or?

Justyn: 41:19

yeah the one little thing that he told me is make sure you make sure I remember he just told me that. Make sure you make sure, make sure you're, I don't know, rehearsed or you have all your ducks in a row. That was one of his other sayings. He would say is, you want to have your ducks in a row. And I think that's, part and parcel with, make sure you make sure. So you're like, you set yourself up for success. I think like when I was doing the gig and I think that it was like my fault. I think that if the string didn't break. I think my backup guitar wasn't tuned or something. I think I had a part in that because, I think I did not make sure to make sure that time, maybe that was the time where I felt his, presence,

Donny: 42:06

I was thinking that and your buddy was like, Oh man, we didn't make sure.

Justyn: 42:09

yeah, I know. So I don't know. I don't know how that relates to your own thing. it looks like you're set up pretty well and all that stuff, but. I just think in your endeavors or whatever you're doing, and I think that you've either done your homework or nice and prepared and all that. I definitely get that feeling. I think you've already done it. I think you did make sure you make sure today.

Donny: 42:30

It's great advice. normally it's trust, but verify type of thing.

Justyn: 42:35

Yeah.

Donny: 42:36

I think make sure you make sure it's a better way of saying it, all right. Well, final thing, best episode of music ghost stories in the future. What does it look like to you?

Justyn: 42:46

I don't even know it's it's possibilities are limitless.

Donny: 42:50

I did send an email to Neil Tyson

Justyn: 42:53

yeah. Neil deGrasse, yeah, then there's my short answer because that would be him because, or someone like him, cause that would be really interesting. to hear someone with a scientific understanding and mind to be able to break it down in those terms, I think that would be fascinating.

Donny: 43:11

I'm going to go for it. that's such a good perspective to have.

Justyn: 43:14

you know, we talked obviously a lot about, my dad and the beach boys and my own experience, but, yeah, we didn't even speak so much about kind of your connection, to the beach boys through your parents and, and that whole thing. And that's really what led us. to meeting and that whole thing. So, I mean, that was also, I think an important piece in your own journey and, all that stuff.

Donny: 43:34

Yeah. like you said, like music was the spirit, it reached my dad and through legacy, that spirit was passed down to me, That led me to putting a pen in my hand and writing on a piece of paper

Justyn: 43:44

I'm so glad that you did reach out and, maybe even happier that I reached back, you know, and then we got to connect. And, and it's really cool. So it's been a pleasure. and yeah, thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it. And it's been fun.

Donny: 43:56

Yeah. Awesome. We'll be in touch. Thanks so much, Justin.

Justyn: 43:59

All right, man. Take care. Have a good

Donny: 44:00

All right. You too. See ya.

44:13

In the presence of Carl's son, Justin. We've delved into the very essence of Carl's genius. His ability to infuse every note with passion. Every lyric with emotion. As we bid farewell to this episode. Let us not forget the man behind the melodies, the soul behind the harmonies. Carl's legacy. Isn't just etched into the grooves of vinyl records. It resonates in the countless moments of joy and solace. His music has provided to us. It's in the warmth of the sun. The gentle sway of the evening. See. And the quiet introspection of the stars above you. As we wrap up. Let's think about how we can apply an attitude of openness in our own lives. Whether through music. Conversations with others. Or your creative pursuits. Staying receptive to new experiences may lead us to unexpected places of insight and connection. Thanks for listening to music, ghost stories until next time. Though this episode is over. Keep listening.