0:49

Welcome to music, ghost stories. The podcast where we delve into the mystical intersection of music and it's synchronicity in our lives. I'm your host, Dani. And today's exploration. We'll be into the heart of authenticity when it comes to creating music. Before we dive in, I want to share something that came up recently. On this podcast, we discuss the unique connections we hold with the instrumental of a song versus the lyrics. in a song. Well, as I continue to sing to my son,who is now six months old. I found myself seeing a familiar classic that is blowing my mind. You may know it, it goes"twinkle, twinkle, little star. Right. Maybe it's me. But I've always pictured a twinkling star. The song was all about this captivating, sparkly thing up in the sky. Well, what I'm caught up on now, especially since this exploration of the deeper meaning within music, is that the song reveals deeper layers serving as an ode to the wonder and curiosity that the vastness of the universe inspires in us. A little deep. I know, I know, but bear with me. The song ends with its final note. However, the question mark in the lyrics has sustained and been relevant since the songs publishing in 1806. Twinkle twinkle little star. How I wonder what you are. The repeated questioning and pondering throughout the song. Can be seen as the never ending human quest for knowledge and understanding. It represents the unknown. Inviting us to question, explore, and seek out answers about the universe and our place within it. Moreover, the simplicity and innocence of a being a nursery rhyme, suggests that this sense of wonder is innate. Something present from birth. It teaches us that questioning and exploring. Our fundamental aspects of the human experience. The song encourages us to maintain our curiosity and to never stop asking questions, embodying the spirit. Of exploration. Weird right. Have you ever thought about it that way? What fascinates me. Is one, the relationship between the music and the lyrics of a song. But second. That this song came out or was published in 1805 and it's still valid today. When you look up into the sky and you see a star. That's one thing, but that's not even what this song is about. It's the fact that you are here and that you question what things mean. And you look up at that star and you wonder. And you dream. And that's what makes you unique? Okay, moving on. Speaking of exploration. Today, we're honored to have Kevin Klein with us. A musician who crafts his songs by tuning to the key of his own frequency. Kevin's dedication to authenticity allows him to capture moments of life, both fleeting and profound in melodies and lyrics that resonate deeply with listeners. Through his narrative. We'll explore how music can be a genuine reflection of our inner selves. Documenting our journeys and touching on the universal quest for meaning. Real quick. Did you know that music goes, stories has a group on Facebook. You can join. And share any coincidences that you've experienced involving music in some way. We want to hear your story and how music has played a synchronistic role in your life. So with each episode, right here on this podcast, there's a description. And there's notes involving each episode. in some way. I try to put things that are unique to the episode, like a playlist of the songs that are referenced, for example, But also you'll find the link that takes you to that community on Facebook. check it out, click it when we're done and I'll meet you over there. All right.

Donny: 5:12

Hey, Kevin, welcome to the podcast.

Kevin: 5:13

Hey Donnie, what's up? Thanks for having me.

Donny: 5:16

let's tell our listeners a little bit about who you are.

Kevin: 5:19

My name is Kevin. I am a songwriter, producer as well. I play in a band called Valley Heart, I'm also a solo musician, and I also do audio engineering and mixing. pretty much as someone who loves music very much and tries to do it whenever I have the chance.

Donny: 5:37

Let's talk about Valley Heart for a minute. because the story about how we connected, is, when my mom was going, through her cancer treatments, you guys had just released a new album, I would listen to that new album, constantly during that time that I was taking her to all of her appointments. And then, eventually, she had passed away. And that album was like the soundtrack of that era of my life. So every time I listened to that album, I just think about me and my mom driving somewhere. which is really like a beautiful memory to have while that's playing for me.

Kevin: 6:18

Absolutely.

Donny: 6:19

And I guess by coincidence, you had, performed in Baltimore.

Kevin: 6:27

Yeah.

Donny: 6:27

My wife and I came out, to see you guys play. I came up to you guys afterwards and I, I shared a story that I actually used some of the lyrics to your song miracle in my mom's eulogy.

Kevin: 6:42

Yeah. Yeah. I'll never forget meeting you. So I like have a very clear, memory of that, moment and really appreciated you sharing that. Oh, I'm so glad we were able to reconnect.

Donny: 7:36

you want to tell the listeners a little bit about Uh, your relationship with music

Kevin: 7:41

I think the way I see it, I am a music fan and listener before an artist, my favorite thing about music, I think, is what we've already touched on, which is what you went through with. with your mom, like that ability to archive moments in our lives through the medium of music, for me is my favorite thing, whether I'm a listener or a songwriter. And they're the same to me. there are certain albums that I'm like, man, that is 2019 summer. Like that is that right there. And To be able to transport back to that time through a record and relive that and sort of explore that emotion is so cool to me, but also the privilege to write that and be that for other people and the community in our own band, to write a record and put it out and then have that mean that same meaning to other people, Honestly is a dream come true to me because it's such a thing I resonate with, with records I was listening to. that's definitely my favorite part of music is of it being snapshots cause I think we're all constructing a narrative and music helps glue it all together in some way.

Donny: 8:46

I mentioned Steve Albini pretty often he said that even if the band doesn't want to be on tape, he says, I'll always record it to tape at the end. his theory is because tape can be played back through, man made objects from nature. he doesn't want to rely on technology for the music to be preserved. So he preserves it through nature, which I find very interesting. his, perception of a recording is a documentation for a point in history.

Kevin: 9:16

Yeah.

Donny: 9:17

I think that sort of alludes to, when you play a certain album, it puts you in that time period because it was a documentation of that time.

Kevin: 9:25

Exactly.

Donny: 9:26

sometimes like releasing the music is a struggle as an artist. especially when you feel like it's not ready. But the other argument to that is this was recorded at this time.

Kevin: 9:37

Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about that. because there's a latency, right? It's funny. I've heard Steve Albini say that in person. I remember that making such a big impact and saying yeah, he always puts it on tape'cause you just never know, like having something so personal and powerful. Live in like a wave file that's on like a Dropbox link. Sometimes, yeah, I try to find old music from like 10 years ago because I've been writing music and sometimes I can't find the masters and I'm like where it was in this old program that, you know, kind of went out of business. I'm like, where is this thing? but yeah, the latency between writing a song, producing it, having it, Ensembled with all these other songs, mastering, marketing, release, it's crazy because by the time it's out there, it can feel like this is old news. And that is something I've heard a lot of artists struggle with, including myself. so you're kind of left with like, well, what's the answer? I think the goal is to like, diminish that latency, there will always be some of it. And I think part of the journey is like accepting that and being like, that's just Part of it. There's always going to be this delayed motion. but I've definitely been thinking about that a lot and wanting to bridge that gap and like shorten that distance more and more. yeah, it's an interesting thought.

Donny: 10:49

when music resonates with someone who has deep meaning, why do you think we have that unique connection as humans?

Kevin: 10:58

I think that's a very good question. I think that's asking why people are attracted to the things they are or like why they find certain things beautiful and others not. I think it's an equal question. And I think there's like millions of inputs that we've received from birth, of what we like. I mean, like little things, There might be something on a record that reminds you of A sound you heard one day when you were in the car with, your dad and, it was summer and your guys were getting ice cream and there was a song on the radio that had like a specific instrument that imprinted that moment. And then later you hear that and you might've forgotten the memory, but like the feel, lived on. I think we're constantly like storing all these conscious and subconscious inputs in our brain. And I think. What's cool about music, it's like constantly building upon itself and someone releases something and it's a culmination of all their influences and then you're hearing that and you're hearing a little bit of this artist and that genre and that influence. so I don't know, it's really cool. I think it's this compounding thing. Yeah, like I love Bossa Nova, which is like a Brazilian style of music, and it reminds me of like my mom and she's Brazilian and like her roots But then I also love when I hear a band or an artist that loves that as well and has blended two different genres. A lot of it's simple, but a lot of it's complex. It's like what we grew up with, but we're constantly forming new memories. So like even today you might hear something you've never really heard and, be excited by its novelty. And that will become a new marker imprint on what you like and your taste will diverge from there. I think it's this ever moving target. and it's really cool to see how people synthesize their taste and put music out in the world.

Donny: 12:42

nostalgia is a big part of it. did you know, that Sega Genesis. And like the regular Nintendo, the technology was they had their own unique sound cards. So the video game cartridges would like trigger these sounds from these sound cards. somehow, some way, the sound on the Sega Genesis was unique and different to the sound that was made by The Nintendo, for

Kevin: 13:11

Okay.

Donny: 13:12

what's unique about that is that when you hear that sound it would like hit deep into your childhood and it would resonate with you. to go back on certain sounds will take you back certain places from your childhood. people were creating instruments to emulate those sound cards.

Kevin: 13:28

sampling is a very effective way to do that, and it could be a really unique way as a producer to sort of get that point across. That

Donny: 13:37

let's say you're listening to a song and it resonates with you deeply. do you think that connection happens more towards. The instruments of the song, or do you think it happens because of the words and the lyrics?

Kevin: 13:51

It's funny. You're like asking all these questions that I feel like I've been thinking about and talking about. I just had a conversation with a friend about this I see like two ends of the spectrum. One are like songs that are like, when I listen to these songs, it's almost like, I imagine the centerpiece of the song being the lyrics or the vocal, and everything else around it could be beautiful, could be minimal could be maximal, but it like all supports Sort of the vocal and the story. It's like very story driven. And I'm thinking like Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan, these guys are like writing stories. And I'm listening to these songs. And it's almost like the songs transport you to an image like where you're like now seeing different things in your head because of the words, right? Those are one type of songs that are one end of the spectrum. And there are other types of songs that are completely the opposite, where the point isn't to paint a picture, but it's to like, let the instruments and the sound itself be what creates a moment. Which is why I think instrumental music, for me, like listening to a lot of post rock and like Brian Eno and Caspian and Hammock, it creates that story, not in someone else's mind's but it creates a moment where That's the centerpiece. And the instruments help you create the visual. so I love both. And I also think that there's a very clear distinction between Those two ends of the spectrum. And I think blending, sometimes when I'm writing, at least I like to blend both and like maybe certain moments feeling like one or the other, but they resonate for different reasons. Yeah. Sometimes a line or a lyric, there'll be like something phrased in a poetic way, that's just holy crap. Like that just struck a chord. Sometimes even phonetically, it's just like the way something is said, it's just like so unique or reminiscent on like, you know, an idea. And it's just about the lyrics. And then other times there will be like a progression or a production technique, a sound, a way something is mixed, even like on the other end of like The instrument section where the results the same. It's this like resonating, Oh, this connection, but for a completely different reason.

Donny: 16:03

Yeah. I like that you put it on a visual spectrum. because you can have blends. That lean one way or the other and everything in between. that's a really good visual way. And I think that's how it exists. You're right. And I love that you use the word poetry too, because that's how I think that, lyrics. are perceived. that's poetry on top of, music itself. that's what creates a song. could you share a moment when music deeply resonated with you? have you ever cried while listening to music?

Kevin: 16:35

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. think about Boney Vare's 22 A Million album a lot. And I don't know why, it's not my favorite album of all time or anything, but like whenever I think about a time in life, like we've been talking about, like a timestamp, a moment, I think about that record and it just takes me back to the fall of 2016. I don't know, at the time I was in my early twenties and I took a trip to Iceland and it kind of changed my life. I loved that trip. It was just such a beautiful country. And you just. Fall in love and you're in nature and that album was the soundtrack to that whole trip for me whenever I listen to it, I'm in that moment again I think talking about that spectrum, that album definitely falls more towards the abstract instrumental, he's not singing about stories, but it's just a wall of sound and lyrical mess. But somehow it resonated so deeply.

Donny: 17:33

is that every time you listen to it, or was there a moment that you put that on and it hit you hard?

Kevin: 17:39

Yeah. I think it was in, in Iceland and we were driving through the Southern coast and we were in like a camper van. It was me and my cousin and her partner at the time. it just hit so hard. And it was a moment where the record made sense. And. Was such a personal experience and it just felt like that song was written for that moment,

Donny: 18:00

nature has a big part of how music resonates with us

Kevin: 18:05

Absolutely. I don't know if you listen to the, armchair expert podcast, but there's episode with John Batiste, he might've been quoting someone else, but he said, music is inevitable. And that sort of stuck with me, like it just, it happens and it has happened for centuries and will continue to happen. And yes, the way we consume it and make it and, process it and distribute it changes but it feels like this. sum of energy that can shift and form, but is always going to be there. And I think that's what you're saying. It's like just part of our nature. our heart is beating there's rhythm, from the moment we were born, it's crazy.

Donny: 18:42

on episode three, I really went into the science behind it. And it talks about how, a baby can sense rhythm at birth. somebody sent me a message after that episode of this article that talks about how babies can detect rhythm. Because it's part of our, development to regulate our heartbeats when we're infants. So they become conscious of their heartbeat. what you just said is actually like scientifically proven apparently.

Kevin: 19:12

Wow. That's

Donny: 19:14

It is incredible. it's part of our nature,

Kevin: 19:17

It's part of our nature. Yeah. And then even things like, quantum physics, And like string theory, essentially like. They're trying to get past an atom, a nucleus, a quark, like what's the essence of life? and there's all these theories out there that are essentially just like frequency vibration. it's insane how the lines get blurred the further you look into things. And it's we're talking, this like really beautiful connection between science and what we've understood is art,

Donny: 19:43

So that last episode we did with Carl Wilson's son He said, my dad would say that music is spirit. it is spirit. and he said, and we are spirit. so the reason there's a synchronicity is because when you bring the two together, there's a harmony

Kevin: 19:59

it's really interesting what you're saying. It's making me think of that harmony and that sort of an interval relationship between like your vibration and like the music you create and the music that we consume. And I think a big part of like. creating is tuning that, to a place where it's like flowing with who you are, Cause I think sometimes we write for different reasons. And I think the music that like really strikes a chord, no pun intended, but like a music that like resonates with people are the ones that you feel like the artist was in tune with, it's like they had to make it because it was an extension of their spirit or like a resonance of their fundamental spirit,

Donny: 20:36

it goes back to authenticity as a creator for sure. A hundred percent. But you know what you maybe just think about was, the early times of the beach boys, for instance, you know how they did like surfing, that was like their thing,

Kevin: 20:50

they were super like surfy and then they got like crazy on pet sounds

Donny: 20:54

But did you know that like none of them really surf?

Kevin: 20:56

Oh, no way. Really?

Donny: 20:58

Like, surfing was kind of like a new thing at the time. So they said, if we can write songs about surfing, we have a chance of getting into a market where there's no songs about that yet. We can be, it's like a blue ocean strategy at, for them at the time. So it wasn't very authentic of them. But when you listen to surfer girl, you can be like, Whoa, this is like a beautiful song. And it goes back to the music side of the spectrum, Brian Wilson, Writing the music behind it. And I don't think he was worried about the surfer lyrics at all, but there was something about the music behind it that he was creating that was true to him, true to his heart. everyone sings the lyrics, but I think what's resonating with them so deeply is what he was creating music wise. And go to the other side, like you said, Bob Dylan or something, like the words and the vocal, what he's saying is so true to his heart that he could just strum just a random, just a regular chord. That's not even like everybody's using that chord. It's not unique to him. You know what I mean?

Kevin: 22:03

Exactly. and it's like the opposite, right? But it's 99 plus one versus one plus 99, right? And it's like the same outcome, but it's just completely inverted. But as long as the sum total is there and it's a hundred percent, it doesn't really matter how you vary it. And Brian Wilson thing's interesting. And it makes you think about acting sometimes, right? Like sometimes. Fiction, can resonate deeper than truth and when you see these, stories and these movies and these films that like elicit insane emotional resonance within us, but sometimes someone's, you know, acting the part, but I think there, there is a way and I think The idea of authenticity, we think, is this like really simple thing sometimes, like just write about your life, but I think there are ways that you can morph and blend and reimagine what that means, that is really unique and doesn't remove the authenticity, but just like there are different ways you can get at that core. some are writing about your life in a really descriptive But for other people, it's, like you're saying, resonating with the heart of a generation that felt very true at the time and like uniquely expressing it through different music. And yeah, I think to be open to different ways that can be, expressed is really cool.

Donny: 23:16

your stories with Valley Heart seem to be very like, not fictional at all. It seems to be just like very blunt, like you said, the, that approach.

Kevin: 23:25

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. My approach for Valley Heart is to document, not just my life, but I guess my spiritual journey, for lack of a better word. Like that's kind of the lyrical, path of the project.

Donny: 23:40

I think that album is really appropriate for this conversation because it's a documentation of your spiritual journey, which is the perfect intersection between music and spirituality, Like, what was that a documentation of?

Kevin: 23:54

So, I wanted to write an album about the warping nature of time just getting into a place where I had come to these realizations of how much time we have, the accomplishments we've made, the idea of. Being present, like the idea of the future, the past, and their weight, and navigating with this inevitable truth that, the only thing we genuinely have is this moment, to explore themes of how to return to a place where we can live in that state where we are, engaged and present. And to sort of explore those ideas through concepts of spirituality, of faith, of birth and death and different motifs that are on the record, this concept of nature and birds and the, presence of animals our ability to as humans in our prefrontal cortex to like visualize our future is what has gotten us here in terms of technology and emotion and it's an amazing thing but Unfortunately, I feel like it's hijacked, our ability to like, just live as humans sometimes. I was exploring like, what it means to, to be in this moment, and just through my own life and through different struggles I had gone through with depression, anxiety, certain situations, and it was trying to just get that out and explore those topics. that's what happened with Heal My Head, that's what sort of that record was.

Donny: 25:24

you said something else that's interesting too that happened in the last interview. Like the whole Carl Wilson thing was his, son said he was very keen on being present. That was like his thing. So when they would perform on stage, he would encourage, everyone to just be present and perform in the moment. you just said that, as part of the theme of your album. and I think while we're listening to music too, it's totally different when we're present. I recognize I'm like, Oh, I almost always listen to music while I'm multitasking. I rarely ever listened to music while doing nothing, but listening to the music.

Kevin: 26:01

Yeah.

Donny: 26:02

So when I go to sleep, I'll put my AirPods in and I'll try to listen to an album and I'm like, Oh man, what a different journey this has become.

Kevin: 26:13

Yeah.

Donny: 26:14

so I always end the podcast. I'm like, even though the episode's over, keep listening. And it's supposed to be the theme of just being present and just retaining an open mind. Just being all ears. And being conscious of what's around us in the present moment. I would encourage people to listen to music while not doing anything else.

Kevin: 27:16

Yeah.

Donny: 27:17

I think it would be, yeah, totally different experience for a lot of people.

Kevin: 27:20

I completely agree. It's such a different experience. And sometimes I do that and I hear things. That I just completely missed and listening to it, while doing other things. It's usually in the production actually. I hear something I'm like, Whoa, never heard that. And that's super cool. I think, we could definitely benefit from that sort of intent of listening.

Donny: 27:40

let's dive deeper in this. Have you ever experienced an odd coincidence that involved music in some way?

Kevin: 27:46

Oh man. a couple years ago. one of my good friends, he's getting married down in Nashville. he asked me and another one of our old roommates to sing Moon River, the classic, I think Audrey Hepburn song. Yeah. And I had never like learned that song or I knew it, but not really. So I had to learn it. and we just, we flew down to Nashville and it was this really surreal experience. Nashville had a really bad snow storm that week So it was like shut down and the whole thing felt like a dream but this song, my other friend and I, John, we played it and it was just sort of like kind of what we've been talking about. It felt like the song of that week. learning it, playing it at the wedding. And there were a lot of emotions that week, like our friend is getting married moving away. And, I remember leaving to go to the airport for that trip and like sitting in the, um, terminal. And I remember like, as we were boarding, I heard like a really faint melody at the airport. And it was that song playing through the speakers, which I'm sure It plays a lot everywhere, but because maybe I was sensitive to it, or, but it just felt like this bow tie on that specific week of my life, or just it felt like, you know, credits to a movie, and I remember just being like, dude, this is so weird, like, how is this song playing as I board the plane to go back home?

Donny: 29:04

that's what we talk about, on the podcast, like the synchronicities, it's has to do with timing and rhythm. And it's how many BPM, but do we think of like beats per hour or beats per day or beats per

Kevin: 29:18

a decade.

Donny: 29:19

yeah. Beats per decade. Exactly. and yeah, it's just like. your clock matched up with that clock and somehow, some way, yeah, on your way home, it

Kevin: 29:28

it's so cool.

Donny: 29:30

how strange is that?

Kevin: 29:32

It's so cool, My mom is connected in that way. one of those people that like, she lives by those moments and They somehow always seem to happen to her. there will be this weird, not just with music, but with so many things. And she's just like, so tuned into that stuff. And I think from a young age, again, with spirituality, just like seeing that behind the day to day, there was like a deeper layer, I think makes a difference in how you tune into that. tuning into that frequency, that's like underlying that you might not be able to see, every moment, but like realizing Oh, like there's something going on here and tuning in and out of that is really important. But yeah, that was definitely one of those moments. I was like, wow, this is strange.

Donny: 30:17

are there any songs or artists, whose music constantly appear in your life?

Kevin: 30:23

I don't think so. I don't think there's a specific artist.

Donny: 30:26

Do you Shazam?

Kevin: 30:28

I shazam. Yeah, I dabble in this shazam

Donny: 30:31

I Shazam. Have you ever Shazamed and it's that person again? You're like, oh, it's always that person.

Kevin: 30:36

Not really. No, whenever I Shazam, I'm always surprised. I feel like I don't know who it is. And I'm like, oh, whenever I Shazam, it just reminds me that, there's so many artists out there that I would love. It's, but I don't know. it's crazy. that makes me think of, that concept of like, let's say you think of the number 1111, right? and you're like, Oh, I keep seeing that number everywhere. And you look at the clock and you're always like, I've looked at that number. I've looked at that time for the past seven days every day. But there's some sort of research out there that like essentially says that once you get something in your brain and like start in a specific compartment, just that you're catching it. Like, we're constantly looking at different numbers all the time, but like, now that you have that sort of visual cue, you're locking it up. There's that explanation. But then I, sometimes I wonder, I'm like, it's like, how could it be? Like there has to be, and I think there's a relationship there between like the things we want to see and the things that show up

Donny: 31:32

You're like is my brain creating this from nothing or has it already exist? And now I'm just aware of it

Kevin: 31:39

Exactly.

Donny: 31:40

And I think that's a big part of meditation I think what you're doing is you're tuning in to the present. you're becoming conscious of what already exists. So you have to do that because what you said earlier, our brains are always looking into the future. And we're always thinking of the next thing, but we're not thinking of where we are right now.

Kevin: 32:00

Yeah.

Donny: 32:00

we love music because it puts us in a different place So it actually becomes healing in a certain regard, how would you define. Your spirituality and I think your story is significant I'd love to hear where you were and where you are now.

Kevin: 32:17

Sure. yeah, I grew up in a very evangelical, Christian household and, was part of organized religion in that sense for many years since I was a kid and like really believed and bought into the aspect of faith and God and connection, but also conventions of a church and this kind of like music and this kind of structure, as I got older, I started questioning what that was, like where the line was between those two things. And I want to say I never let go of the first part, which is there's something more to all of this, but I definitely started questioning like all the other stuff. Pretty heavily,

Donny: 32:58

What other stuff

Kevin: 33:00

guess more social things it felt like I had been in this immersive experience my whole life. And then all of a sudden I like zoomed out and I realized that like my grand, capital T truth was like a dot and like a bigger picture that somehow felt like, wait, I can't, it doesn't make sense that this is a.

Donny: 33:23

Absolute

Kevin: 33:23

absolute, right? And I'm like, wait, there's someone else out there who has that same experience with a completely different, different sets of emotional beliefs. And for them, it's Allah or it's something else. And it's, it was, I just started having all these questions and I'm like, wait, like, how can I be so arrogant to say My one subdenomination of Protestantism is like the one and I just started feeling really icky about the feeling of whereas before I was like, this is it and I was like Evangelical recruiter mode, like from when I was a kid and the narrative just completely switched for me. I was like, wait, this feels selfish. This feels arrogant. This feels like I'm not seeing people for who they are. I essentially just, dropped it all and left the church I was in. I was, like, working at a church at the time. and It was heavy because, like, I didn't have any place to build on. I just knew I had all these questions. I didn't have any, answers or structures to help, build. I think a lot of people have had these questions and there's definitely a bigger community around people who feel this way and have with friends in my own life and people, and even with my mom and parents, like realizing like they've been through their own sort of changes and. I just went through this shift where I think I don't resonate with a lot of things that are in the traditional like American church, but I still hold a lot of the core values and faith that I grew up with. And I'm actually thankful for those where I think for a long time, I just tried throwing everything away. But now I'm definitely in a place where I'm like, this has caused me to be a person who is sensitive to. Spirituality as we've been talking about a person who's sensitive to deeper things in life and tries to go beyond the surface and those values were instilled in me through my mom and my faith is very much tied to our relationship with my mom. And so being more appreciative of those things and realizing that, there are good aspects of it and. feeling like I can accept those aspects without compromising, like, how I view the bigger picture and, other things. still very much a journey, and again, I don't necessarily have more answers, but, I guess I have a healthier way of interpolating all of that, I vouch for doing that no matter like where you came from. And I think it's always important to, to re examine. It's definitely dangerous. Like I said, I wasn't doing so hot. Those moments that I was in that process because there's so much discomfort that's where like for me it was drinking but luckily like I made it out I feel like what's on the other side now and Didn't get like consumed by like addiction or something like that. But it can, it's definitely a dangerous like zone to be, but I think it's an important one if you can navigate it. because it like really strengthens what you believe wherever you landed, you're like, I got here. Cause I genuinely believe this. I'm not just going through the motions like as an adult, It's led to just like understanding things in a different way.

Donny: 36:13

during that time of vulnerability, did you find comfort in music,

Kevin: 36:18

Absolutely. Yeah. That is a big part of that. Yeah. And I listened to a lot of artists that were Pedro the lion, David Bazan, a lot of people who were singing about this stuff, on the lyrical side of things, Found so much comfort and listening to artists that had gone through it or been or going through it and Making something out of that pain that sort of Documented again that journey felt like the best thing to do because I just knew that I needed just Somewhere to leave it out like to put it up, you know Let's put it out and music was a huge part of that time I used it so profoundly to find peace and comfort and like, narrative to the whole thing,

Donny: 37:03

those artists that, that you listened to, that shared similar experiences weren't happening at the same time you were going through those experiences, they had already gone through those experiences.

Kevin: 37:14

right.

Donny: 37:15

And what's beautiful about the recording and the documentation is that it's preserved for people that are later in the timeline. it actually compensates for latency in a way.

Kevin: 37:25

Yeah. That's a good point. I think that's happening now more than ever a lot of. Songs and bands are kind of like reemerging amongst the youth that like, yeah, stuff like I had a roommate a couple of years back and he's younger than me. He was like 19 at the time and, he just like discovered Switchfoot for the first time. And he's like Gen Z and he's like, dude, have you heard this? Like you like played me stars by Switchfoot. And I'm like, yeah, dude. Yeah, I've heard this many times and he was like freaking out and it, but it was really cool to see. Something that came out, 10, 15, 20 years ago now making an impact on someone. And that's really powerful. And I think with the accessibility and the information age we live in, that's become more and more commonplace. Just like younger kids, finding things from different eras and like finding different little pockets and niches that maybe didn't come out this year or last year, but like years ago. And there's like a big shoegaze movement right now from the early nineties. And Kids that are like 15, 16, 17 are starting bands that sound like they're from the, the 90s. And I don't think that's really cool. and, yeah, it's definitely a beautiful part of music.

Donny: 38:35

music transcends time,

Kevin: 38:36

it does.

Donny: 38:37

so go back on the spiritual side of things. Have you ever felt like a profound spiritual connection while you were performing for instance, writing a song?

Kevin: 38:48

Definitely writing. yeah, the writing and the recording process for me is It's mostly that. It's mostly feeling like I'm tapping into something bigger and that feels like I'm able to get there really easily. Almost always. the performance side of things, I have a hard time to be honest, because there's so many things that go into playing a show and getting there and setting up and different bands. It's really, it's a work for me to get out of a place where I'm just like, okay, I'm just trying to go. It's like going through the motions, and you're like, maybe stressed about a certain thing, or that you can't really hear yourself in the monitors and the room doesn't sound good. There's just so many different variables that go into feeling present in that moment and taking you out of that. And I would say a lot of times I'm in that space of just trying to make sure things are good or perfect and in a Big work for me. And for some reason, I think for some people, the performance side of things, it comes more naturally. They just, they're in their element and they're like tapped into that frequency. And you can just see it. and I'm, I think for me, I feel that most when I'm writing and recording, which is why I love being in that environment.

Donny: 39:57

how do you get in that mindset? Does it just happen naturally? Or do you have a routine?

Kevin: 40:01

it's just like a mental thing. It's, making sure there's like quiet before performance. I don't know. It's important to me. And it's really hard when you're on the road because you don't always have a green room or stuff like that. But I've noticed that's made a really big difference for me. Just like being able to just have a moment where I'm like breathing and not overly stimulated or something like that.

Donny: 40:21

if your music could send any message to the world, what would it be?

Kevin: 40:27

I would say to document your life and hopefully to inspire people to, to do that, and do it in their own way. It might be through music, through art, through different forms. that's why when you, you say the thing about driving with your mom, that's like the ultimate pinnacle thing I could hear like genuinely, because that is exactly my goal is to just create music that creates that for people and inspires them to like, do more work to make that for other people and create Some sort of small part in this chain reaction, but I don't know why, but that just feels the best work I could do, so that's exactly what I'm trying to accomplish.

Donny: 41:04

the theme of this conversation. I think is you encouraging people to document, their authenticity and something I'd never really perceived before that I learned from this conversation is the thought of a recording affecting someone later down the timeline. if those artists didn't record those experiences that they had while you were having that experience, you wouldn't have been able to find comfort in that music

Kevin: 41:27

yeah.

Donny: 41:28

that music could have been something that saved you from falling even deeper into some type of addiction or finding solace somewhere else that was a lot more dangerous, so I think if that weren't to happen, if that weren't documented, it's hard to say what the outcome would have been, but man, it's, it seems like a lot scarier of a place without it.

Kevin: 41:49

Yeah. And I think there's absolutely a theme. It's exactly what you're saying. Of the timelessness of music and especially with your stories with the Beach Boys coming back up and being this like motif in your life. yeah, that's an old band, but there's just something about their story and their songs that are coming back

Donny: 42:07

you made me think of that artist from, Stranger Things from like the 80s. What was her name? I can't remember. Running on that hill was a

Kevin: 42:13

Oh, Kate Bush.

Donny: 42:15

yeah. She like they talk about how much she made off of that song in the 80s and then like 40 years later. She's making She made probably like the highest paid song from that era Like she really was like no nobody on the charts at the time imagine how she felt making music at that time or Maybe she didn't care cause she wasn't making it for that time period. Maybe she was just like, I'm going to create art true to me and whatever happens and man later down the road, she got the reward for that.

Kevin: 42:45

Absolutely. Yeah. That's such an inspiring story.

Donny: 42:49

Final thing, What would the ultimate episode of music ghost stories be for you?

Kevin: 42:54

honestly, something you said that interests me was like where science can explain music and maybe an episode breaking down all the theories of what's happening neurologically in our heads with music and exploring that maybe with a guest who studies that or something like that. getting to the baseline of where science meets theory and where theory meets spirituality, like really getting up close to that frontline and seeing what's going on there. That'd be really cool.

Donny: 43:24

I think this is an exploration that people really like these conversations, people always think about it, but it doesn't really come to like content, you're part of it, man. So thanks for being part of this journey.

Kevin: 43:33

So honored and so happy we did this.

Donny: 43:36

Awesome. All right, man. I'll see you, Kev.

Kevin: 43:38

Donnie.

Donny: 43:38

All right.

43:42

music, at its core, can be a reflection of our true selves. A medium through which we can document our lives, express our deepest emotions. And find solace in the genuine. As we part, I encourage you, our listeners, to seek out those musical narratives that speak to your spirit. To embrace the authenticity in the art that you consume and create. And to consider the powerful legacy of truth. We leave behind in the songs that soundtrack our lives. Until next time, everyone. Keep listening.